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Difference between revisions of "Talk:Main Page"

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:Consider our future in what way? In my experience, evelopedia has a few shiney layouts and a fair collection of basic help articles, but their item/ship stats are nortorious for being a few patches behind, and confusing to boot. And the guides aren't anything more than what can be found on the Eve boards, certainly nothing than can't be done here too with a little effort. They also have "locked official pages," a fair number of the ones I've come across aren't very helpful or satisfying. So, in short, I don't see them as being all that great except for a few areas, and certainly nothing too unique. [[User:Bjj8383|Bjj8383]] 02:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
 
:Consider our future in what way? In my experience, evelopedia has a few shiney layouts and a fair collection of basic help articles, but their item/ship stats are nortorious for being a few patches behind, and confusing to boot. And the guides aren't anything more than what can be found on the Eve boards, certainly nothing than can't be done here too with a little effort. They also have "locked official pages," a fair number of the ones I've come across aren't very helpful or satisfying. So, in short, I don't see them as being all that great except for a few areas, and certainly nothing too unique. [[User:Bjj8383|Bjj8383]] 02:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
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::I was wondering if some sort of a merge wouldn't be to everyone's benefit. One bigger wiki is better then fewer smaller ones; hence why I like Wikipedia so much :) --[[User:Piotrus|Piotrus]] 03:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Revision as of 20:22, 3 May 2009

Contents

If you would like to suggest a change the main page, please edit Main Page/Sandbox. Also, direct any questions or suggestions about frontpage layout to Talk:Main Page/Sandbox.

Also See: EVEWiki talk:Galactic University, which serves much the same purpose as this page, but with less "I'm talking about *this* page" to it...

Some contents from this page have been archived to: Talk:Main Page/Archive1 2 3

NOTICE TO ALL EDITORS

To help coordinate our efforts, I will be maintaining the channel 'evewiki' 'EVE-WIKI' ingame. Please stop by so that we can coordinate our editing better, get to know each other, and work towards a plan for the future direction of EVEWiki. Depending on evaluations of current and future goals, we may need to add more administrators, or otherwise change how some things are done. Please stop by, especially if you want your input to be considered.--Nickel Deuce 19:02, 21 June 2007 (PDT)

Anyone know if this is still active? I usually just lurk in Help while I'm playing, but if 'evewiki' is active yet I could lurk there instead... --Scrotch 19:23, 16 April 2008 (PDT)
I do not believe so, don't take my word for it though, as I have never actually joined it. The thing is that even before this announcement there existed a channel called 'EVE-Wiki' and I got the impression that it was frequented more. I am there when I am playing, but during a 3-month EVE-vacation which I just got back from it seems to have been abandoned. PreTender was on it also when he was playing, I don't know if he still is. - Pesi 01:07, 17 April 2008 (PDT)
The 'evewiki' channel is dead it is now 'EVE-WIKI. Uni Zueto 03:06, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

Maths

Anyone know why math tags aren't working?

I think it's an extension that needs to be installed by the host. -Bjorn 14:44, 13 May 2006 (EDT)

I might throwing some maths around here in the near future, but i think it still (<math>sqrt(a^2+b^2)=c</math>) ain't working. --Aenigma 14:39, 31 January 2007 (PST)

It's not an extension; it comes with the MediaWiki distro. An installation guide can be found here. (: Haede Tynin 12:59, 7 April 2008 (PDT)

New EVE wiki found

EVE History Wiki. I suggested merger on their talk page.--Piotrus 03:29, 2 January 2007 (PST)

Hi! I don't think that merging is on the cards ATM as we are trtying to focus on the historical element rather than current stuff. OTOH, you have a lot of resources that we could link to instead of duplicate. (eg I can't imagine us having a useful article on POS so a link would be appropriate)Starquinia 15:43, 7 January 2007 (PST)
I'm all for a partership (not to be confused between a merger). This would give us a place to link to when we need historical clarification while we could focus on the tactics and such. It's a win/win situation where they focus entirely on the history of the stuff and we focus entirely on say, layouts and such. --Mgrinshpon 10:19, 8 January 2007 (PST)
I think that one site is more effective then two (easier to share templates, one category system, etc.). This is why there is one Wikipedia, not 2 or 10. But I am not forcing anybody... but from my Wiki and several wikis experience, the more wikis on a single subject there are, the worse they all are (as editors have to divide their attention, and many newcomers don't know that Wiki A is for A and Wiki B is for B...). One last thought: One Wiki to rule them all... :)--Piotrus 17:14, 11 January 2007 (PST)

2 EVE wikis found.
http://eve.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.evepedia.de/index.php/Hauptseite (This one is in german) - Pesi 12:05, 31 January 2007 (PST)

As for the Wikia EVE, I just received an email from them, they are interested in a merger.--Piotrus 14:55, 30 May 2007 (PDT)

Here's the Japanese Wiki listed from CCP's fansite list and translated through Google. Eve-Wiki.jp Google doesn't translate Japanese well... It has some good info Uni Zueto 06:46, 5 September 2007 (PDT)
Anything ever happen with the Wikia EVE merger? --Eirik Ratcatcher 16:09, 10 April 2008 (PDT)
Angela, owner of Wikia refuses to let that Wiki die for she has a vested financial interest in keeping alive any potential break-away Wiki's. The negotiations fell through. She's more than happy to bring Eve-wiki.net back where she can show adverts to every visiter but won't hear of closing the Wikia site down. Even when all the original admins requested it be closed she refused. Uni Zueto 03:11, 2 May 2008 (PDT)
Thanks for the update Uni, as I mentioned on your talk page I've wondered about this myself.--Scrotch 20:54, 3 May 2008 (PDT)
Sad, that. And that Angela might well be the one vandalized on a(nother) wikia wiki I frequent. --Eirik Ratcatcher 11:55, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

Copyrights

See EVEWiki:Copyrights for my suggestions; we have discussed this in the past (ingame chat and such). I hope this copyleft coctail will pose no problems (it is the most liberal variant, patterned after WikiMedia Commons project).--Piotrus 19:55, 10 November 2007 (PST)

Official EVE wiki?

From recent Devblog ([1]):

Evelopedia and Corporate Registry

At the same time, we should have an Evelopedia in place, an official wiki for everything EVE in addition to a new Corporation Registry, allowing corps to list them as recruiting and for players to search for corps to join.

What should we do? If anything? --Piotrus 10:48, 19 November 2007 (PST)

Well, I seriously don't think that simply letting corps put listings on the wiki is a viable answer to anything. I mean one day a corp is in full swing and same time next week no one logs and it begins to die. Too many corp CEO's are not fully active enough in their corp to actually maintain an evewiki page or listing. However, Allowing corps and Alliances to maintain comprehensive and somewhat interesting pages could be a change from the normal, "join our corp! we are fun and laid back!" that permeates the current places where corps register and attempt to recruit...Geminisceptre 15:16, 27 December 2007 (PST)

True, but we also have corp and alliances pages - and more content, so we can compete with that.--Piotrus 08:11, 28 December 2007 (PST)

We are now an official fansite

After a year of trying, we are listed at http://www.eve-online.com/community/fansites.asp . Although... as a Dutch language website. LOL. --Piotrus 11:10, 22 December 2007 (PST)

About damned time!!! Uni Zueto 03:13, 2 May 2008 (PDT)
I looked through that list 3 times, I could not find the link for this eve wiki --Dasfry 03:20, 26 June 2008 (PDT)
They probably pulled it because of the banner add that was flashing on our site advertising ISK sales for real world cash. If that's gone we might get back on. I'm a bit peturbed. Uni Zueto 10:56, 26 June 2008 (PDT)
Perhaps. Or perhaps because they want no competition? --Piotrus 23:39, 11 July 2008 (PDT)

If you think about it, Thats pretty funny.. If they really go through with this, i smell a drop in reader base but... it depends how good theirs is --Dasfry 02:09, 12 July 2008 (PDT)

They're going to be converting their items database over to the wiki and have tools to update it automatically with the changes after each patch. That's a killer feature. On the other hand its apparently going to be a very heavily moderated wiki, which suggests it could be quite hard for outsiders (non-CCP) to get a start in editing there? - GAThrawn 05:06, 12 July 2008 (PDT)
Can they just import our whole Wiki onto their site? Uni Zueto 01:20, 15 July 2008 (PDT)
I like this wiki, in that I don't have be afraid of what I post, worrying about big brother watching/deleting what I'm writing. That it might not meet their requirements --Dasfry 02:03, 17 July 2008 (PDT)
From a strategic point of view, my strategy would be to make allies of other websites that are under threat from the creation of this future CCP Eve-Online wiki. Combined you have a better chance of surviving, assuming the partnership is managed well & the owners of this wiki want to survive/compete for reader base. --Dasfry 02:08, 17 July 2008 (PDT)
The other option is to ignore it and pretend/hope it'll go away (lol) --Dasfry 02:08, 17 July 2008 (PDT)
The issue is that once CCP have invested time and money, its not going to just go away. For a start it'll replace their item database [2], and (eventually) be linked to from all over the EVE-O website, their knowledgebase, maybe the forums and almost certainly ingame links from things like each window's "Welcome" page (that links to places like the knowledgebase at the moment). So will new players even think of looking elsewhere for a different, independent, more neutral wiki when they've got everything pointing them straight to CCP's official corporate one? We need a way to make ourselves different from them and just as (if not more) useful.
The fact that articles here don't have to "toe the corporate line", don't have to be absolutely nice to CCP all the time (would the offical wiki have a nerf article?), can be less directly related to everyday EVE life (like Rfry's tactics pages), and can be about non-CCP things like EFT or EVEMon are among our strengths. - GAThrawn 09:07, 18 July 2008 (PDT)
If they would be smart they should try to convince us to join their project, as they would be gaining both a lot of content and editors. I thought CCP was smarter then the average corp, but I guess I shouldn't have overestimated greed and short-sightedness of any corp... :( --Piotrus 16:51, 18 July 2008 (PDT)
Piotrus, I wouldn't go as far as attacking them for creating it, but rather take it as a challenge, in the words of microsoft (lol) Innovation is key... We need to be better then them at something, either faster, more complete, easier to use, perhaps even less moderated, or less biased and more objective away from CCP's edits? if this is to survive we are going to have to beat them or at least equal CCP's wiki --Dasfry 02:38, 23 July 2008 (PDT)

I'll leave my concerns about whether CCP's wiki makes this one redundant or not until after I see it. It's been promised for some time now. I've started comments (about moderation, participation, database advantages, and the "advantage of embedding your product") several times, but... I think I'll still wait and see. ... And I won't any of those concerns stop my work here. --Eirik Ratcatcher 09:33, 23 July 2008 (PDT)

There is an opportunity here for what I'd call a tactical preemptive strike... your stance of "I think I'll still wait and see..." from my point of view would be waiting till the knife is at your throat before reacting kind of view, But thats just my Tactical opinion, so i guess we will see what will happen. --Dasfry 12:55, 23 July 2008 (PDT)
The thing is that we can't really do anything about it, so there's no use worrying about it. If they release a wiki, they release a wiki. It should just spur us to work harder. Meta Tinara 14:15, 23 July 2008 (PDT)
Perhaps we will find that CCP's wiki is none of the things that we fear. Perhaps it will be all of what we fear. I'm simply unwilling to comment on the obvious OR the unknowable properties of such a wiki. Hakuna Matata. I'm already working to the best of my ability here, in the field of my interest. The most obvious means of ensuring this wiki's survival is to garner more contributors, something I'm not actually able to do. --Eirik Ratcatcher 16:11, 23 July 2008 (PDT)
CCP's wiki has arrived... [3] It appears to work in game as well, although heavily, moderated its basicly like this Evewiki, almost the same style with a black background and white text. Its in direct competition with eve-wiki.net and uses your game login to, log into the site and edit. Allowing you to choose which character to set as your main editor in that. Gonna be tuff to beat, head on.
Eve-wiki.net has 3,000+ articles, wiki.eveonline.com has over 6,000 already
At approx 9:45 GMT Dec 11th 2008 their site did go down though, wonder why?--Dasfry 21:29, 16 December 2008 (PST)
Hmm... A very great deal of what I had expected.
  1. heavy moderation: no discussing exploits, for instance. No dissing CCP personnel. (Given past history, I expect that to be used with a heavy hand. Given that CCP personnel edit their wiki, what's the natural consequence?) No signs of democratic intentions yet.
  2. full integration with their item database: on the plus side, all their items are available. Negative side, those pages are not editable. (I was amused at the "edit this page" note at the bottom which, when clicked, lead to "this page has been locked...") Most of their pages are in this category, I would wager.
  3. not open: must have active EVE account to contribute. Thus, no danger I will jump ship, as my account is only active when I'm researching more material. Does mean that they have greater sanctions they can wield against ISKfarmers. ... wonder how long it'll be before they close editing to trial accounts. (3... 2... )
  4. compatible with in game browser: to be expected, they can test that sort of stuff. Probably also limits the skins, formats, etc that they can use.
So, we'll see what we shall see. --Eirik Ratcatcher 13:08, 16 December 2008 (PST)
looks like the details are out.

So lets make sure our pro's are strong, improve our cons, and do what they con's won't let them. Like my optimistic view? --Dasfry 22:45, 16 December 2008 (PST)

Suggestion for a new Featured Article

Occupations? I have rewritten it recently.--Piotrus 17:04, 10 January 2008 (PST)

Skills: To Boldly Go...

This last little while I have been making some changes to the skills pages...

  • overviews of each skill category
  • Category:XXX --> Category:XXX skills so Category:XXX can be used for something else
  • slight change to the Skill Tree sidebar format; adding new sidebars as needed
  • {{elink-skill}} template for Links To Elsewhere (External links). For now, just eve-online and allakhazam, as sites both relatively complete, rationally indexed, and Findable By Me. :)
  • Adding "what this is a prerequisite for". Eventually, I hope to add "Items this is a prerequisite for". Need planning for that, though, as there are a LOT of items out there, and it'd be nice to list categories rather than individual items (unless there was a specific exceptional item).
  • The occasional "XXXX" or "XXXX (Skillbook)" to "XXXX (skill)" as needed for disambiguation.

Please do look over my changes and provide your comments. --Eirik Ratcatcher 16:15, 10 April 2008 (PDT)

Cool :) Hopefully when I get more time I'll be able to jump back in and help with these again. I assume you know of evemon? Has a button on the skill window called show me what this skill enables and a big old list of what can be used at what level, may be helpful :) Good job so far :D (note to self: I use too many smileys) Runia 13:34, 11 April 2008 (PDT)
Nope. I know nothing of evemon. Never even heard of it until you mentioned it just now... Is there a wiki page on it? And yeah, maybe it would be helpful. Does it list items as well as skill prereqs? --Eirik Ratcatcher 09:42, 14 April 2008 (PDT)
Evemon has its own page, but it seems like it could use some updating. I'd do it but I don't use it, as it's Windows-only and I only have Mac OS.--Scrotch 19:17, 16 April 2008 (PDT)
This ties closely to eve-wiki spamming policy which... is non-existant. We might want to think about a policy for external link spamming in order to keep it under control. Or do we want to encourage as much advertising and side sales linked to Eve-wiki? I'm undecided. Uni Zueto 03:20, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

gallente ships page

Hi, I'm new to eve wiki but not new to wikis. I don't seem to be able to find a village pump page, but I hope this serves the same purpose.

Anyway, I redid the Gallente Ships page, hopefully making it more readable and creating a more useful index. I would be glad to redo the Amarr, Minmatar and Caldari ship pages in a similar fashion if consensus is that my changes have been improvements, but I'm an EO newbie and my only active character so far is Gallente. So I would need help with removing or clarifying outdated or incorrect information.--Scrotch 16:16, 13 April 2008 (PDT)

Odd you should mention a Village Pump page. I'd only just got done creating Galactic University and Spaceport Bar and Grill pages to emulate the Pump pages I was familiar with on another wiki. Not that anyone has used them. But then, I only created them a few days ago...
As far as the Gallente Ships page goes, ... I am not really a fan of section headings being links. For the ship types, do you feel strongly that there needs to be a link right there to the ship type (Destroyers, cruisers, etc), given that the Core Ships template has those links at the bottom of the page? As for the ship name section heading links... I think you could get away with 'unlinkifying' the section heading and simply mention the ship name (as a link) in the text. For those entries having text, anyway. I like that the T2 variants are associated with the ship type, instead of the tech type, though. And those pieces of prose in the article that you changed, I think were for the better. --Eirik Ratcatcher 10:15, 14 April 2008 (PDT)
Thanks for the suggestions. I think you're right, the links to the individual ship pages are better off in the text following the ship. (Where there is text, and unfortunately I don't have hands-on experience with the majority of Gallente ships as I only bought my first BC the other day and am still working on the skill requirements for T2 ships. But I'll see what I can do.) I'll try to rewrite each ship blurb to incorporate the name within the first five words or so, and then link the name there and delink the section header, and where there is no ship description I'll just leave the section header as a link while I try to get a description done. And then maybe when I finish all that I'll start looking at the other factions' pages...--Scrotch 17:37, 14 April 2008 (PDT)
Oh and as far as links in the Frigates, Cruisers, etc. headers. I tend to say, "Why make readers scroll to the top/bottom of the page when they don't have to?" especially for something like a link. After all, we wouldn't want to make them scroll to the bottom for a link to individual ship pages, and I think that would hold for the ship class pages as well. Also, although I think the master ship type footer is really useful and I relied heavily on it while redoing the page, it is sort of intimidating to new players. (I think the footer would benefit from a subtler color scheme also, maybe using color-coding for each faction instead of a pale yellow background for the entire box. But I defer to someone with a better design aesthetic than myself to make those changes.)
Anyway, the point being that especially on such a long page, we want to make things as convenient as possible for readers. So I think that links somewhere near the ship class headers are needed. But any suggestions on where it could go besides in the header itself are appreciated.--Scrotch 18:34, 14 April 2008 (PDT)
You might consider using {{main}}. --Eirik Ratcatcher 12:18, 16 April 2008 (PDT)
Hmm, good idea. Or I could put up a page on Gallente Frigates, Cruisers, etc. and set a main page refer to there.--Scrotch 19:22, 16 April 2008 (PDT)
OK I added {{main}} refers to each ship's section and de-linked the majority of the headers. The only header links left are for broad ship categories (e.g. Frigates, Destroyers) and for specific ship varieties (most T2 types e.g. Interceptors, Logistics) that I haven't worked into the text that describes the ships in that category yet.
I'm shying away from doing individual Frigate, Destroyer, Industrial etc. pages for Gallente as I think the very little that could probably be written for these pages could just go on the main Gallente ships page without making it significantly longer.
Any other suggestions of what I could do to improve this page before I start looking at redoing the other factions' ship pages?--Scrotch 20:15, 20 April 2008 (PDT)

Were you going to be doing the type headers too, eventually? --Eirik Ratcatcher 12:10, 21 April 2008 (PDT)

Ship names that are headings should now all be de-linked (I missed a few) and all have a main-refer link beneath them. Any of the sub-class headers (subcategories of frigates, cruisers, etc. -- all level 3 headings I think) that are currently linked will be de-linked when I have time to add a pithy remark like "The Phobos is the Gallente T2 Heavy Interdictor." beneath it. The level 2 headings are all things like Frigates, Cruisers, Battlecruisers that are not linked anywhere else in the text, so before I delink them I would probably add in a short intro to each before getting to the ship types. Like, "Gallente frigates tend to have bonuses to hybrid weapons and slightly favor armor over shields." with maybe a few phrases if I can come up with anything to add that hasn't already been said in the intro. These will take a little bit of time before I have a chance to brainstorm them up though, and I might not be able to add anything for battleships and capitals as I haven't even looking at those in-game yet.
However, since I have zero experience in-game with any faction's ships but Gallente the other pages are going to be bare-bones unless there's some text already there, so I may need to make some level 2 and 3 headings linked on other faction ship pages in order to keep a link where I think the page needs one. But right now I'm more looking for major structural changes that y'all think are necessary before I start eyeing the other 3 (4 if I do ORE) pages for the same basic plan as the "Gallente ships" page currently has. Down the road I think these would be good candidates for a total revision to being souped-up knock-the-socks-off pages, but I'm not the person who can do that, so I'll settle for a good, readable, navigable page with solid basic info.--Scrotch 23:01, 21 April 2008 (PDT)


Your experience doth exceed mine own. And probably your writing skills too... :) --Eirik Ratcatcher 16:17, 22 April 2008 (PDT)
Alright I've started re-doing the Minmatar ships page.--Scrotch 20:09, 24 April 2008 (PDT)
Minmatar is done, and I made some changes to the Gallente ships too. Next up is Amarr.--Scrotch 11:37, 26 April 2008 (PDT)
Amarr is probably 95% done and I'm starting to eye Caldari.--Scrotch 13:40, 30 April 2008 (PDT)\
Caldari is for all intents and purposes finished. ORE Ships should be a snap, done in a day or two. One question: I'm thinking of moving Faction Ships to "Pirate faction ships" and moving non-pirate faction ship info off the page. Thoughts?--Scrotch 20:45, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

essdb.milair.net down?

essdb.milair.net is a popular link used by most of the ship pages. I went to take a look at it, and found it offline...

In the process, I think we could use an {{elink-ship}} template along the lines I used for {{elink-skill}}. The links to eve-online are busted for ships, as they've moved the pages to a language-dependent page. Speakin' of which, if we had a way to put a language in preferences, {{elink-skill}} (et al) could use that to figure a more useful eve-online database page than just the english one... --Eirik Ratcatcher 10:38, 14 April 2008 (PDT)

Work needed:

Some few of those wanted pages got their rankings because they include templates referring to them. {{Science Skill Tree}}, {{Core Ships}}. Some of the skill ones will evaporate as I complete the last couple skill categories... :) And Scrotch seems to be doing a number on ships... --Eirik Ratcatcher 14:09, 2 May 2008 (PDT)
On Wikipedia they assign Projects devoted to various workloads. Like here we could have the Eve-wiki Project:Skills and use that page to plan the edits and talk page to discuss strategy. That talk page becomes the 'forums' for skill related editing. The Eve-wiki Project becomes the overall encompassing planning page for Eve-wiki editing. This talk page is more devoted to discussing the Main page and it's format/content. Comments? Uni Zueto 17:58, 2 May 2008 (PDT)
I've only been working on the racial ship pages and have been holding off on adding new individual ship pages, as there seem to be a number of different ship page templates in place and I'm not sure which are to be used and which are to be deprecated. Nor am I used to using templates, really...even what's needed to implement a simple table is straining my knowledge of wiki coding.
That said, a page where we could propose projects and get feedback on them from other editors and then starting individual project pages sounds like a great idea. Even if the grunt work on each project is mostly done by an individual user, having a central location where ideas can be proposed and commented on would be really useful, I bet...the reason the pages I'm redoing look half as good as they do is largely due to the suggestions Eirik made when I started.--Scrotch 17:49, 3 May 2008 (PDT)

Pay for eve-wiki mission editing?

I'm considering offering an isk reward for every properly entered mission article. 500k isk for level 1 per part. 1m isk for level 2 per part, 2m isk for level 3 per part and 4m isk per part on level 4's. You think this will get some workers busy on here? Uni Zueto 08:02, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

(reprinted from user page... some good ideas) Uni Zueto 17:58, 2 May 2008 (PDT)
You would have to do a few things...
1) advertise both on the forums, and in game. There simply aren't enough wiki editors at work here to provide the information base you'd need. More, you'd need to advertise in all 4 primary areas.
2) provide (and point to) a model mission article, or better a mission article template with clearly marked blanks in the code for "put this here". Do you have one?
I can't swear to how attractive the reward would be... I only played "most of" a trial account, so 500k isk is a great amount to me... but also about what one of the salvaged alloy bars brings on the market where I was.
However, as a way of starting a community, a new generation of editors, it might work. Getting people to want to contribute for the sake of the contribution instead of the reward may be a matter of operant conditioning... :)
A few other things you might do, and take these with the grain of salt my experience level deserves...
- troll the newbie zones (which, honestly, I never exited) for folks, and point them consistently to this site.
- have a wiki corporation whose declared purpose is to explore and test facets of the game that would make good wiki articles. Perhaps populate it with alts, for those already comitted to other corporations.
- hold popularizing events
Like: invite everyone to get into a 'starter frigate' and travel as a pack, see how far you can get (with or without forerunners and guards to clear the way).
Or perhaps a tutorial fleet engagement (rules of engagement, nominal prizes, whatever)
Does any of this make sense? I really don't know much of the culture of EVE, after all. --Eirik Ratcatcher 13:53, 2 May 2008 (PDT)
I've kinda been wondering if mission pages aren't a chicken-and-egg problem, in that you want to have a good template (not necessarily a wiki template, but some standardized way of having info on a mission page) in place before you start adding info on a lot of missions, but to have a good template you kind of need to have a lot of missions entered into the wiki. Eirik's point #2 hits on this too.
I'm of the opinion that wikis are a 'if you put it up and it's quality, they (good editors) will come' process. I don't know if cash rewards (sort of) are all that great of a way to get the ball rolling, but to be honest if you do end up going this route I would make them a lot smaller, probably roughly 50% of what you get for completing a mission of that level, without the time bonus. (I'm in Level 2 Kill Mission hell right now, so I'm thinking maybe 50k-100k for the missions I've been doing would be appropriate, Level 1 missions would be under 25k per.) I don't know how you'd decide to establish whether an article was 'good enough' for getting the stipend, but I'm guessing that it would involve some sort of review process, maybe like what featured articles go through on some wikis?
Anyway, to get to my real point (I swear I have one), the thing is that for a small stipend you have a lot lower risk of someone getting hurt feelings because they didn't get the reward for whatever reason, which unfortunately can be risky on a public wiki. And also, I wonder if cash bonuses are maybe not the best way to get people to stick around after the work with mission pages has all been done.--Scrotch 02:12, 3 May 2008 (PDT)

Pay for eve-wiki mission editing?

I'm considering offering an isk reward for every properly entered mission article. 500k isk for level 1 per part. 1m isk for level 2 per part, 2m isk for level 3 per part and 4m isk per part on level 4's. You think this will get some workers busy on here? Uni Zueto 08:02, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

  • I'd likely contribute if you're paying that amount. Depends how strict your formatting requirements are, and all that, but I'm interested. Alsadius 13:45, 5 May 2008 (PDT)
If I had to do more than 10 minutes of cleanup work from the featured page look and feel I wouldn't pay-out. We need to pick a mission page and make it a featured article to show the standard we would hold new pages to. Writing up the Mission style sheet... Yeah I'll get to it after this weekend. Any help would be appreciated. Uni Zueto 15:53, 9 May 2008 (PDT)

Spamming Policy

I thought this deserved talking about as a topic of its own...

... eve-wiki spamming policy ... is non-existant. We might want to think about a policy for external link spamming in order to keep it under control. Or do we want to encourage as much advertising and side sales linked to Eve-wiki? I'm undecided. Uni Zueto 03:20, 2 May 2008 (PDT)

I present my own list of 'likes' and 'dislikes', as I am not sure what limits you have in mind, Uni. And I don't want to trample even unstated preferences by more established people here.

Things I am in favor of:

  1. Linking from page X to corresponding page X of Generic Large Database Site. (examples: ships, skills, ... item?
    adding value for the user; wikis are not always the best tool to use for searching, and databases can often be more complete in their areas.
  2. Linking from a specified page to external sites relevant to the page topic. (examples: community sites, external guild pages, ... eve tools - character planners, ship layout tools, etc?
    Again, wiki as a service.

Things I am against:

  1. Gratuitous links (spam)
  2. Links for the sake of adding revenue to the linked site.
    This wiki shouldn't become a link farm feeder, and IMO should not promote for-profit business, other than for the game itself.
  3. Links to unmaintained/obsolete sites.
    Links to inaccurate information, and links that no longer resolve are avoidable 'noise'.

Bear in mind too, that if/when it becomes a formal policy it becomes harder to change, ... but not impossible to change.

Discuss!  :) --Eirik Ratcatcher 12:20, 5 May 2008 (PDT)

Well the first question I guess I would have is: How is this site supported financially, and who (if anyone) benefits from it? I've assumed so far that it's a pro bono sort of service to the EVE community, but maybe not? Either way, though, a strong non-commercial policy seems appropriate. Definitely no ISK seller or botter links, or anything else prohibited by the EVE EULA.
I realize the the EVE community has a fairly dim opinion of WOW generally, but WoWWiki is to the best of my knowledge the current gold standard for a MMORPG wiki. There will be differences between that site and eve-wiki, but I would recommend taking a look at the discussion for their policy on this and see if there can be something learned about what works and what doesn't, I'm guessing they must have already faced the same issues more than eve-wiki is ever likely to.--Scrotch 20:53, 5 May 2008 (PDT)
Maybe I haven't fully integrated into the EVE community... I like WOW well enough, and the WOWWiki as well. --Eirik Ratcatcher 11:47, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
I also would not like linking to site which promote ISK sales but all of them (including us now) seem to allow those advertisers. The Elink template standardizes the externally allowed links and makes maintainence of those links much easier in case of a 404 or we decide to ban a site. From experience on Wikipedia elink deletion and watchdogging can become 30% of the total workload if page protections and standards aren't used. No anonymous editing that we have greatly enhances the protection from spamming. As we grow an anti-spam bot will become a necessity. I don't play WOW and never visited their Wiki. If you have specific examples of solutions and the problems that arouse then link away. I came from Wikipedia and they are like the gold standard of practices from sheer amount of editing and disruption. Uni Zueto 15:45, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
Oh yeah, Wikipedia is definitely the big one among wikis, my point was only that WoWWiki has probably already seen some subject-specific abuses (links to game currency sellers, bot writers, etc.) that I expect an antispam policy here would be directed against. I'm not personally aware of any spamming problems there except for a company that added some images of a replica of a sword based on Warcraft lore (which as I recall I removed from the page along with the links to the company website), but they seem to regard spamming/commercial links as a form of vandalism: wowwiki:Spam#Spam in Wowwiki. Of particular note is that (as far as I can tell) they have a bot set up to look for specific links and hostnames and remove them from pages (the SpamBlacklist extension)...maybe this, or something similar, can be implemented here?
As far as advertising and side sales, the "About EVEWiki" link in the page footer says that it's a nonprofit fansite, so unless there's a problem paying the hosting bills, I think that keeping these to a minimum is the best policy? I don't see a problem with the EVE banner ad at the top of the pages, and although I wish they didn't link to ISK sellers so much I think that the google ads are fine, but as far as commercial text in the body of the pages I'd personally like to see as little as possible. But links to the eve-online.com and CCP websites I think would be kosher, since they are rather integral to some aspects of the game. Something I'm less-determined about are links to other fansites that are run as for-profit enterprises, although if the content is quality I think there's a case to be made for it.--Scrotch 16:33, 11 May 2008 (PDT)
Would it be possible to add a short disclaimer next to the banner ads saying that buying ISK is a bad idea? It could link to a more comprehensive page explaining the fact that if you buy ISK, you'll likely end having the bought ISK removed from your account, or even banned altogether. As it is, being an official fansite with ISK selling ads might cause a new player to think that buying ISK is "legal". It could also explain why, despite the fact that ISK buying is forbidden in game, a fansite is running banner ads for it. :) --GNiko 03:14, 28 June 2008 (PDT)
I will start by linking to here, and continue by banging on the doors of our Admins... --Eirik Ratcatcher 12:27, 3 July 2008 (PDT)

Navtables and categories

(for those who don't yet read EVEWiki:Galactic University... ):I feel strongly that the various Navtable templates (in here) should NOT include categories.

  • Not currently used for individual ship pages ({{Core Ships}} is used instead).
  • Forces any use of the template to include that page in the category, not guaranteed to be the right answer.
  • Restricts other things that might be done with category inclusion - such as putting the page describing the class at the top of the category.

Is there objection to my removing them? (and where applicable, explicitly including the category) --Eirik Ratcatcher 11:47, 9 May 2008 (PDT)

How does the ship page inherit the appropriate category under your method? Does it come from the Template:Ship? I'd rather inexperienced few time editors fill out a template for a ship and have the template do all the necessary accounting of categorizing and formatting in oderd to maintain some standard look and feel. Uni Zueto 15:50, 9 May 2008 (PDT)
One method to inherit the appropriate category (-ies) would be to include them in the boilerplate within HTML comments, with the legend, "choose categories appropriate to this ship".
This all came about because I thought including the navtable for a ship should be part of the page describing the skill. As a separate issue: I'm undecided whether to leave the skill in the ship category or not. Opinions? --Eirik Ratcatcher 15:04, 12 May 2008 (PDT)
Grr... didn't answer your prime question completely: Currently, the individual ship pages explicitly have their categories listed. A ship stat sidebar (as opposed to the current {{ShipStats}} template) might be a good choice, if you really have to have a ship category in a template, since it is a template unlikely to be reused in non-ship display pages. --Eirik Ratcatcher 15:08, 12 May 2008 (PDT)

Talkpage policy

I was looking at Talk:Brutally Clever Empire and noticing a lot of unsigned or poorly signed comments. While I could probably reconstruct the editors from the history... it's a lot of work, and I didn't quite muster THAT much interest.

However, I thought about the talk page header from WOWWiki and thought I'd go ahead and include that on the page. Their template includes, though, policies both on signatures and on talk pages.

I think both are a good idea (even giving our comparatively low population), but they're policies. Means we'd need consensus on them. Would folks like me make actual proposals on these things? Or are y'all satisfied with things as they are now, without written policies? --Eirik Ratcatcher 16:44, 17 July 2008 (PDT)

I actually imported Template:Talkheader from Wikipedia and modified it a little bit to conform (pretty much) only to EVEWiki:House Rules and common courtesy. I would love to see actual policies on several things: NPOV (neutral point of view), Wikiquette (etiquette for wikis), AGF (assume good faith in edits), and a BITE (don't bite the newbies) policy. If you would feel up to drafting policies, Eirik and anyone else, I would love to give you my thoughts on them! :) Meta Tinara 14:09, 21 July 2008 (PDT)
Was hoping to see more than one face in the audience before I started spewing policy proposals. That sort of work is ... scary. But then, so is "making most module type pages 'singular'". So who knows? --Eirik Ratcatcher 14:34, 21 July 2008 (PDT)

No more uncategorized articles!

I just finished going through and categorizing articles, so there is no backlog on Special:Uncategorizedpages any more! Congrats to everyone that worked on this! Meta Tinara 14:02, 21 July 2008 (PDT)

There are only a few uncategorized images left. Some of those have what appear to be read errors of some sort, and one... that has serv.asp in it... IMO should be slain with prejudice. Still plenty of work to do. --Eirik Ratcatcher 14:36, 21 July 2008 (PDT)
The serv.asp-named one doesn't affect anything, but it should ideally be moved. The other two are for some reason broken on the Image namespace pages, but link correctly. Odd. Meta Tinara 14:40, 21 July 2008 (PDT)

RFC for a Template:User replacement

This is transcluded from User:Meta_Tinara/RFC/Template:User. Please go there to add to the discussion, to keep it organized. Thank you!

Hey all. This is a Request For Comments on a template I'm almost ready to roll out. I'd like some feedback on it. The template is located at User:Meta Tinara/Template:User and will eventually be moved to Template:Pilot. It's intended to replace the old Template:User, as the old version does not have the ability to leave out parameters without breaking. I'd like to get some comments on it -- whether good or bad -- before I move it to the Template namespace. Also, I would like to get in touch with a sysop about adding some CSS to MediaWiki:Common.css to help with formatting infoboxes and such before I move it. Thanks in advance! Meta Tinara 12:30, 22 July 2008 (PDT)

Perhaps especially, some comments on how the template appears using the In Game Browser. Me, I'm not at all clear on what the needs of the IGB are, and I've only found occasional scraps of comments... --Eirik Ratcatcher 12:43, 22 July 2008 (PDT)

Policy on policies

I didn't see one. So I created one. The largest advantage to having such a policy is, you can tell when a policy is accepted, instead of having it hang out there languishing.

Discuss it. Eventually, vote on it. --Eirik Ratcatcher 13:14, 25 July 2008 (PDT)

Almost top 10

Eve-wiki is number 12 in number of web pages dedicated to Eve-online according to the Google rankings Uni Zueto 14:37, 2 September 2008 (PDT)

I'm noticing a lot of people linking to articles from here on the official boards lately. Some of them are mine... *gulp*, lol --Zxc-vbn 05:00, 3 September 2008 (PDT)
The price of being famous. We need to keep up the effort, though. If I can find someone with bot experience to troll the downloadable database, we could put a lot of the "things you can buy" online here. Don't know what else it's got, but maybe npc ships and all else, too. --Eirik Ratcatcher 10:29, 3 September 2008 (PDT)

That would be a huge undertaking but I can help make some template boxes. —ǥrɩɳsɧƿoɲ 18:15, 5 September 2008 (PDT)

Cool. Might also check the conversation on User Talk:Timony about wiki bots and such. --Eirik Ratcatcher 08:42, 8 September 2008 (PDT)

Woot! a 'completed constellation!'

I've been filling in constellations as I run down screenshots of the system. Today, I finished the last system of Meinigefur! I'm jazzed!

PS - check out Category:Things to do! --Eirik Ratcatcher 15:55, 18 September 2008 (PDT)

Policy on Capitalization

Should all article titles be capitalized?

I recently noticed that my latest article volley damage, wasn't capitalized. This made it so that Volley Damage doesn't link to it. Volley damage will link to it, which might make sense since the php?Title= part of your address bar will always capitalize the first word, and de-capping it will simply re-apply it automatically. volley Damage doesn't work, so it seems to be the 2nd word's case that matters.

I think it makes more sense for titles to be capitalized, given that they are titles after all. I also think that links should be capitalized, given that they are proper names. I feel that it is far more aesthetically pleasing, as well.

This carries some consequences when linking from an article to another one. We would either have to always match the case, or create a redirect for both possibilities. The latter is what I and others have been adhering to for the most part, although there was at least one instance of a person who said they didn't like having the many redirects for each article.

Thoughts? --Zxc-vbn 05:13, 29 October 2008 (PDT)

On other wikis I contribute to, the standard is "sentence capitalization unless a proper name". That is, "Volley damage", "Target link", "Beam lasers", but "Target Link I", "Caldari Dreadnought" (the skill). It's the standard I've been using (and thus, prefer :) ), but it's not been universal. --Eirik Ratcatcher 09:44, 29 October 2008 (PDT)
I suggest following Wikipedia Manual of Style, and its "don't capitalize unless it is a proper name" policy. --Piotrus 19:42, 24 March 2009 (PDT)

Server slow

For the past few weeks I've noticed that our wiki loads very slowly, compared to other pages. Any ideas why? --Piotrus 19:42, 24 March 2009 (PDT)

Should be taken up with PreTender, who presumably has access to the hardware, the access logs, etc. Perhaps it is time we took a snapshot, just to be safe... --Eirik Ratcatcher 11:31, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
I sent him an ingame mail. If he doesn't reply, my other idea is the "[email protected]" given on wiki. I am getting a lot of 500 errors, and the slowness of the servers makes it both difficult to edit and to use the wiki :( To be honest, I'd feel much more confident if we migrated to wikia: relying on one (?) person to maintain the site is never a good idea - what happens if PreTender quites the game (or worse)? --Piotrus 14:26, 25 March 2009 (PDT)
Its really got bad in the last week, and I'm getting a 500 Server Error every time I try to load a page for the last couple of days, takes 2 or 3 reloads to get the page to show up. Feels like an overloaded/under-housekept database to me. - GAThrawn 06:34, 26 March 2009 (PDT)
I did some quick small tweaks and ill have a good look at it this weekend. Dont expect me to leave eve btw im here since beta and thats almost 8-10 years ago :) --PreTender 07:08, 26 March 2009 (PDT)
[email protected] is an address that (last time I tried it) was either 'mailbox is full', or unresponsive... I remember getting a bounce from it. --Eirik Ratcatcher 10:51, 26 March 2009 (PDT)
You can also just send me an email using evewiki / or use my talk page they autoforward to my mailbox. The webmaster account is blocked because i just got 100's of spam mails a day on those --PreTender 03:26, 27 March 2009 (PDT)

I did some db work on the site and updated to the latest wiki tell me how it runs now. If it still bogs down then ill try and move it to a new server asap --PreTender 21:38, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

EVElopedia and our future

I looked at EVElopedia ([4]), it looks pretty impressive. I do think we may want to consider our future, in light of EVElopedia existence. --Piotrus 01:54, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Consider our future in what way? In my experience, evelopedia has a few shiney layouts and a fair collection of basic help articles, but their item/ship stats are nortorious for being a few patches behind, and confusing to boot. And the guides aren't anything more than what can be found on the Eve boards, certainly nothing than can't be done here too with a little effort. They also have "locked official pages," a fair number of the ones I've come across aren't very helpful or satisfying. So, in short, I don't see them as being all that great except for a few areas, and certainly nothing too unique. Bjj8383 02:35, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering if some sort of a merge wouldn't be to everyone's benefit. One bigger wiki is better then fewer smaller ones; hence why I like Wikipedia so much :) --Piotrus 03:22, 4 May 2009 (UTC)


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